Talk:Declaration of war

Israel-Hamas 2023

As of right now there has not been a formal declaration of war by Israel, as spelled out in Basic Law: The Government. Until this changes, adding Israel to the list is misinformation. Not logged in 2 (talk) 17:56, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Cannot confirm myself whether a formal declaration has been made, but according Basic Law: The Government, it is the governments decision to declare war with the Knesset to be notified "as soon as possible" by the Prime Minister, and it defines the government as the Prime Minister and his ministers. So it is within the Prime Minister's power to declare war, then to notify the parliament. In his words "we are at war not an operation" yet we could do with some more concrete evidence of this being formalized beyond his words. 2600:1006:A020:6D1B:B8AC:D704:567E:CA58 (talk) 23:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

To add, the full quotation from the Prime Minister is: "“Citizens of Israel, we are at war. Not an operation, not a round [of fighting,] at war!"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/we-are-at-war-netanyahu-says-after-hamas-launches-devastating-surprise-attack/

And later in the day he says "since the morning Israel has been at war"

https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1710631847879717236

Given he has the legal power to declare war on behalf of Israel, what more evidence is necessary to infer that Israel has made a formal declaration of war? 2600:1006:A020:6D1B:B8AC:D704:567E:CA58 (talk) 04:50, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

You can read an article in Hebrew here discussing it. What has technically been declared is a "אירוע חירום אזרחי" or Civil Emergency. It has not yet been reported that war has been declared per Section 40 of the Basic Law: The Government. Not logged in 2 (talk) 18:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm fully aware that there are headlines saying things like "Israel declares war on Hamas" but it has not in fact formally declared war per Israeli law. Not logged in 2 (talk) 22:07, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Care to elaborate upon which portions of Israeli law have not yet been fulfilled in a formal declaration? The Prime Minister has outwardly spoken to the nation being in a state of war, and according to Israeli law the Prime Minister has the authority to declare war, and that parliament is to be notified.

Which other elements have not been fulfilled to constitute a formal declaration of war? 2600:1006:A020:6D1B:B8AC:D704:567E:CA58 (talk) 12:56, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

It would seem that the Israeli Prime Minister has now taken the step as outlined by Israeli law to formally declare war.

https://x.com/israelipm/status/1710988418585423898?s=46&t=H3koeNAS0TIAR4vtVle6wQ FatCatSwe (talk) 14:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Twitter is not a reliable source. That said, there are multiple sources stating that Israel has formally declared war. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Although I am no longer able to capture it on the Internet Archive because the page has already been captured 7 times today, the front page of the Washington Post as of writing reads "Israel formally declares war; combined death toll passes 1,000". Here's an archive of a Washington Post article titled "Israel formally declares war against Hamas as hundreds killed on both sides": https://web.archive.org/web/20231008185504/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/08/israel-hamas-war-gaza/

I don't think it gets any clearer than that.

NateNate60 (talk) 18:56, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

The WaPo headline notwithstanding, as posted above the Mekomit newspaper in Israel reported that what has been technically declared is a civil emergency. Order signing is reported here at Ynet. This is not to say that there won't be a formal declaration of war per Section 40 of Basic Law: The Government, just that it has not actually happened yet. Not logged in 2 (talk) 19:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@Not logged in 2 The source you linked to appears to be from yesterday and refers to an emergency declaration. There is an avalanche of reliable secondary sources that are stating quite explicitly that today the Israeli government formally declared war. Some have specifically cited section 40 of the Basic Law. At this point I don't think this is reasonably controvertible. I would ask you to please remove the disputed tag from the entry on the article page. Thank you. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:47, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough then, it's been reported enough that looks like it may have passed muster. I'll remove the tag, but let's keep the discussion open in case there are any clarifications later. Not logged in 2 (talk) 20:07, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

I've removed this entry. Hamas is not a nation state. A declaration of war can only be one nation state on another. This is not a comment on the conflict, but it rather about the subject matter of this article, namely "declarations of war". Politicians frequently 'declare war on', drugs, terrorism, poverty... these are not the declarations of war that are the subject of this article - because, again, the target of the 'war' is not a nation state. If this is to be reinstated it should be Israel vs Gaza or Israel vs Palestine... but they claim not to be at war with those nations, they claim to be targetting Hamas which is not a nation. Marlarkey (talk) 01:47, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Good. Thanks for doing that. I think with time and with the emotions of the moment removed, we can be more rational now about assessing what actually happened, which I think is more as you described. Not logged in 2 (talk) 22:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

My edit was reverted by XavierGreen so I'm reverting it back again. Failed to address the issue I raised namely that at the top of this article it says "A declaration of war is a formal act by which one state announces existing or impending war activity against another.". Hamas is not a nation state so does not meet the criteria for being included. That Israel declared war is irrelevant. Hamas is not a nation state. Israel itself does not recognise Hamas as a nation state. Israel is free to declare war on a terrorist group - just like USA did against Al Qaeda. But that too was an abstract war on a group, not a formal war which is in the scope of this page. The reversion was vandalism. Marlarkey (talk) 14:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it's also important to point out that the Hebrew version of this article does not say it was a formal declaration of war. Here is what the translation says: "On October 8, 2023, a war of iron swords was declared following a surprise attack on Israel (2023) (the official announcement about this used the term "significant military operations" and not the term "war")." The user Marlarkey is 100% correct that we are not at the level of being sure enough about this for it to be listed as a formal declaration of war, the same way it would be with one nation state vs. another. Not logged in 2 (talk) 13:27, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Here is a source from DW stating that the israeli government declared it to be in a state of war. [1] Such declarations are clearly within the scope of the page.XavierGreen (talk) 18:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, declaration of state of war I think fits with the consensus. Agreed it's within the scope of the page. Not logged in 2 (talk) 12:33, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't give a stuff about what you or Israel say about the declaration. I care about whether it is in the scope of this page. And it is not. At the top of the article it says "A declaration of war is a formal act by which one state announces existing or impending war activity against another.". Hamas is not a nation state so Israel declaration does not meet the criteria for inclusion. Please do not vandalise the page. Marlarkey (talk) 14:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

"one sovereign state against another"

Do Hamas, SASR and IS count? Or does the wording need to be changed? Smeagol 17 (talk) 15:05, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Cameroon - Ambazonia war: Could not verify

I've combed English-language sources on the internet and could not find a quote or government document where the Cameroon government declared war on the Ambazonia groups, only news sources equating certain statements to a declaration of war. Should be verified with French-language sources or removed from the list. 76.64.122.99 (talk) 07:33, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

India-Pakistan war

Wasn't there a state of war between the countries? They fought several times and there was at least one declaration of war by India. Yes, I would also like to raise the issue of the Indo-Chinese conflict.Thank you for your attention Konstantinlerlove (talk) 05:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

According to this page for the Indo-Pakistani war, "statements released by both nations the next day confirmed the 'existence of a state of war between the two countries', although neither government formally issued a declaration of war." For the Sino-Indian war, "neither side declared war, used their air force, or fully broke off diplomatic relations, but the conflict is commonly referred to as a war." Some Hecking Nerd (talk) 05:50, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@Some Hecking Nerd Thank for answer to the question about the Sino-Indian conflict, but I can't agree about the Indo-Pakistani one. You didn't specify which war you mean out of the three, and besides, there are more in this article There are also more dubious examples - for example, the Russian-Georgian and Russian-Ukrainian wars were undeclared. Nevertheless, they are indicated. Thank you for your attention and understanding. Konstantinlerlove (talk) 08:37, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

The Georgian government formally declared itself to be in a state of war during the Russo-Georgian War.XavierGreen (talk) 14:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

State of War and Russo-Ukrainian armed conflict

Since the belligerents of Russo-Ukrainian war didn't declare war, nor had declared state of war officialy, put it in the table of war declarations since 1945 is misinformation. Ukraine only had introduced martial law since Feb 24,2022/ 46.211.98.148 (talk) 16:15, 17 September 2024 (UTC)